Thursday, February 26, 2009

L-O-S-T, Season 5, Episode 7 (The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham)

See Doc Jensen's Teaser and Totally Lost-Part 1 for this week.

First off, as always let's start with Doc Jensen's review.

_________________________________

NIEL started us off on the LOST discussion this week:

I think they may have given something away last night, when Widmore gives Locke the papers and John asked who Jeremy Bentham was, Widmore tells him he was a British Philospher, "your parents had a little fun when they named you, so I thought i would to"  Perhaps a little slip that he and Ben, Richard all think he is a dolt and is not special. 

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

HEATHER:

I don't think he's special because he's a genius, they may actually think he's a dolt but I think that his faith or something else about him makes him special to the island. With the connections of all the people who are coming back, like Charlotte having lived there before, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he had an ancestor tied to the island. Maybe someone from the Black Roque? Or, even before then...someone tied to the people who built the foot statue/temple.

Anonymous said...

JJ:

Who do you trust? i think that seems to be the primary focus of last night's ep. i loved last night's L O S T, but didn't expect to. i wasn't loking forward to seeing Locke off the island, begging people to do the right thing and watching them tell him to piss off. but the episode surprised me and left me hungry for more and appreciating last week's ep a little more, now that i see the other part of those two that were written together....


I will say now that i am choosing team Widmore. seeing Widmore and Abaddon engage Locke at the start of the ep was totally awesome to me and unexpected.. Widmore being invested in Locke and the island and all that he said was quite fascinating. this whole thing, of course, recalls all the times that Locke has been tricked and conned and used and taken advantage of and how he NEVER learns from this. but i used my knowledge of past episodes with Widmore to decide that he is the one Locke should be trusting and not Benry. we know Ben is a liar, he's been one from the start. we know Ben is a manipulating bastard, we see him do it every time he's on screen. but we've been led to believe (Locke included) that Widmore is the bad guy and the ubervillian of the island... all of which has come from Ben. and we have been prone to believe Ben due to one scene really: the scene in Flashes Before Your Eyes when Desmond goes to Widmore's office the first time to ask for Penny's hand and Widmore cruelly tells him that he's not good enough for his whiskey, so how could he ever be deserving of his daughter? cold blooded. but was it? not to Widmore. we know Desmond from his island history and love his character. but through Widmore's eyes, Des was a coward who had accomplished nothing in life and his daughter could do better. Widmore may have been cruel to Desmond. he also may have told him exactly what he needed to hear to get him back on track in his life, but throughout the exchange, Widmore never lied about anything. and i'm am starting to think the only times he may have lied about things, was to protect Penny. flip the script on that and look at Benry. Lied since day one, hyrt everyone we know on the show, tried to kill Locke twice and succeeded last night! and then there's the cold way he took out Keamy, knowing it would destroy the freighter and kill everyone aboard, thinking he was the best at trying to manipulate the stand off at the barracks that ended up getting Alex killed, and finally the as yet unknown outcome of his revenge driven attempt to kill Penny. as i list these things, there is no doubt that Ben is evil to the core and the bad guy. period. i am not on Ben's side at all. that SOB needs to be dealt with. and if resurrected Locke is fooled again by him and allows his sorry injured butt to pull through i will be sooooo ticked. somebody take that snake out asap!


as for the rest - i loved Abaddon driving Locke around and trying to get in his head. i also think Lance Reddick is totally awesome as an actor and the way he delivers his lines can give you chills. he rocks. Locke's reluctance to trust him (for the first time ever, Locke is a skeptic!) was warrented, but i felt of all the people who have screwed Locke over and tricked his sorry rear, Abaddon seemed to genuinely only be asking Locke what HE needed. everyone else is always telling Locke what he has to do next and so on. but Abaddon was offering him help. and i think it sucks that he was killed! his character was so intriguing... what a rip off.


off all of Locke's O'6 appts, i thought Hurley's and Kate's were the best. seeing John still pining for Helen and the mistakes he made with her was touching.... Hurley saying, "so you didn't make it" and being totally not surprised to see him was pretty funny. plus i loved Locke pulling the Christian Shepard card on Jack. nice.


seeing Locke descend yet again into self loathing from all his failures' with the O'6 and in general could have been boring to me and "here we go again. woe is me Locke." but it stuck for me this time and i identified with him a lot. Locke was determined to complete his mission AND keep his promises which shows a lot of nobility in his character, even if he is still a total fool, still easy to trick and manipulate. Benry bursts in and does just that. ohh, Locke. when will you learn, dude. what does it take.


the episode had a lot of deep emotional pain and longing in it, which made it a lot better than if Locke just had to go visit all of the O'6 and the die. XinhXan pointed out that Benry seemed to not be aware that Locke will be resurrected once he's killed him. plus the way Ben snapped at the sound of Mrs. Hawking has us curious as to what that's about since he was working with her once John was dead. huh?


and then we have the very cool stuff going on on the island.... John goes to island once and is cured from his paralysis. goes to the island twice and is resurrected from the dead. seeing Lapidus had landed the plane intact was another nice touch about his character, he was able to do the same thing with the helicopter in the beginning of last season... and then Lapidus has high-tailed it for the island... most likely to find Jack and Co. good set up... and them there was Walt's dream about Locke being in danger... will Benry use his lying ways to get all the new losties afraid of Locke and they will try to kill him again? we shall see... i liked it. want to write more, but no time and i'm sure i've written enough for all of you anyway...

let's see what you guys think.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I don't know, Locke is played too easily and it happens over and over again.

Anonymous said...

HEATHER:

I agree, I liked it.

The main question I have about this episode is what was it, exactly, about Mrs. Hawking that had Ben snap? What was Ben's little girlfriend's name on the island- when they showed him as a kid? It wasn't Ellie, was it? She's a little older but time is different on the island. Lastly, everyone was suppposed to come back, but where is Desmond? Was he out in his boat with Penny crossing a particular Longitude/Latitude that propelled him to the island with Penny and Charlie too?

Also, Abbadon? Maybe he had an adjoining coffin to Locke's on the plane?

Another question, the chick that introduced herself to Locke... is that Sayid's guard that marched him in, in handcuffs? She seems pretty cranky.

I know other poeple have asked this, but where is Rose? Come on! I want the other Losties to show up soon for a reunion.

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

I can't say I really liked last nights episode. I mean, don't get me wrong, it was LOST, so it was better than anything else out there - but I didn't like the pacing of John's globetrotting. I never thought I'd say this but I wish there was a little more back and forth between the island and off the island.

Best exchange of the night, which I think speaks directly to the rest of the season, if not the rest of the entire series, paraphrased:

Sayid: blah blah, I was being manipulated by Ben.
Locke: (beat)
Sayid: ...who's manipulating you, John?
Locke: (blank stare)

I won't recap the episode as JJ did a decent job at it, but I was discussing some timeline issues with the show with someone from work. See if you agree/disagree with this, or if I'm missing something obvious. As I thought might happen, once we start time traveling, the 'current timeline' of the show starts to get grayer and grayer. Before we were neck deep in the time travel, I thought that the series might go from flashbacks, to flashforward, and then I theorized the next logical step is flash-sideways. Anyone I said this to thought I was crazy, and while it really never materiliezed, I think we're getting close to it now. Maybe not alternatite realities as I thought it might be, but we're definetly in a similar area.

Anyway, back to my timeline thoughts. If there is any 'current time' I think we have to use Locke and the new castaways as our 'center'. We know Jack and Co. got flashed out of the plane, and they came across Jin in Dharma gear, likely the '1970's Dharma", in their hayday. So... does that mean that Jack/Kate/Sayid/Hurley/Sun are in 1970s where they'll meet back up with Jin/Sawyer/etc, while Locke/Ben/Lapidis/some-other-lady-he-left-on-a-boat-with is in 2008/9? And Jin/Saywer/etc have been at Dhamra for 3 years, pre purge, maybe pre-Ben? Any additional thoughts?

JJ, our resident historian, when you have a minute, I'd like to hear a recap about what we know about the Dharma/Others purge again, with new information/lies as Ben or Widmore would like I us to believe. Initially it was explained to us viewers that Ben was part of Dharma, had daddy issues, joined up with the Others, then killed/gassed all the Dharma people, then took over the Dhamra houses -- then when Jack and Co arrived in Season 1 the Others/Dhamra felt vulnerable? I know Widmore/Richard Alpert are pulling some strings we dont know about yet but... ya...

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I think Locke, Ben, Sun and Frank are in the current time line and Jack, Kate, Hurley and maybe Syaid are in the 70's. Syiad could be in Danielle's timeline since he seemed to have a connection with her the most?? Entertainment Weekly had a Lost article a couple of weeks ago and one of the pictures showed Jack, Kate and Hurley in the Dharma village with multiple Dharma vans in mint condition. Also wasn't that Danielle's map that Cesaer found in the Hydra station?

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

Ya, I saw that picture too (wish I hadn't) - and I don't watch the next weeks previews, so it might have been spelled out there too - but ya, now that I remember that picture, Jack & Co. are definitely in 70s with Dharma in their prime. But - after I wrote my email, I'm doubting my thoughts that Locke/Ben/Lapedis are in 'current-2008/9' - is there any reason why they can't be in the 70s as well?

Hmmm....

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

Annie was her name, otherwise we would have the whole Graduate thing going on with Ben and Hawking.

I think Abbadon is dead.

Yeah that was the same girl and why does it seem that she and Cesaer are a little to organzied for surviors of a plane crash already?

Rose is nagging Bernie some where on the island about something, Bernie is probably wishing he could have jumped with out her once.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

Could be, that would explain Danille's map in such good condition, maybe she stole it from the Hydra station. But the only thing holding back that theory is the flash, did it take all the O5 ? If not then I would think the 316 crash would be in current time.

Anonymous said...

HEATHER:

I think they're all on the same timeline. If they're not, then they'll all be jumping in time until Des gets there. Dharma is going to be ticked that their new person (Jin) has run out on the job, but really he'll just be in another time... not sleeping under a palm tree somewhere.

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

Ya, the flash happening to only the original people is what initially led me to think they're in different time frames. But since Locke stopped the island from time hiccuping (in theory) I can't imagine how the storytelling is going to go with Locke being in a different time.

Anonymous said...

HEATHER:

Oh my... thanks for the 0'5 comment. I just remembered, 1) Hurley; 2) Sayid; 3) Sun; 4) Jack; 5) Kate and 6) is Aaron, isn't it? So, not all the 0'6 is back! Unless someone snuck Aaron on the plane?

I know Traci thinks Kate killed Aaron but I'm not buying it.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I don't know, but it sounds like all except Frank, Locke and Sun vanished at the flash.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

He is asleep still in the cargo hold.

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

And Ben. But why do you say Sun didn't vanish?

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I am just going on the basis of the comment that the pilot and a woman took off in one of the boats. I assume it is Sun, but Frank is a cool kat, maybe he grabbed some supplies and a stewardess and beat it to a private lagoon????

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

HAHAHAHA, All I know is that I don't want to be Ben when he wakes up and there is John.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I don't know, I am confused about Locke's current state, the scene where he pulls the blanket back, I was torn between Jophn Locke-Jesus/savior or John Locke- Jedia Master....

Anonymous said...

HEATHER:

Locke didn't have time to store that knife set he had with him for the Walkabout before he passed. Think he buried them on the island somewhere so noone would find them?

Anonymous said...

JJ:

remember that Hawking said they all could get back to the island EVEN if some of them didn't go, it's just that the results would be unpredictable... similar to what Ben said about turning the frozen wheel. so i am thinking that Locke turning the wheel successfully stopped the time jumps, or all the Losties left on the island would be dead by now for sure. and that Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun, and Sayid all flashed off the plane onto the island, and all in the same time in the Dharma-Age to be reunited with their original Lost buddies, just not all in the same place. and then Lapidus landed the plane (not crashed it) on Hydra island.... so that might explain why they are better prepared, since the plane not breaking up would have been as horrible to deal with. i think it's also clear that Locke and the new 316 Losties are not in the same time as the 815 losties because Jin is rolling in a brand new Dharma van when Kate, Jack, and Hurley show up... but the Hydra Station is abandoned and run down, to the point that it even looks post season 3... so i am saying that Locke and the 315 people are either in the present or the future. and the 815 people are in the Dharma age and the reason for the time division is the unpredictability of the entire group not returning together.


one more note: Flight 815 crashed and was ripped apart due to Desmond's failing to push the button quick enough due to being out of the hatch killing Kelvin. Flight 316 had no event to cause it to crash... i think both flights passed into the island's window that Faraday determined (or the latest path needed with the island's movements) and then would either have to crash or land without knowing the way out of the island's little snow globe trap. 815 crashes thanks to Desmond's electromagnetic burst, and flight 316 lands on Hydra island due to no electromagnetic event, but also no way to escape the island's sphere. so no break up and horrible truamatic scene... just Lapidus looking for a long enough clear stretch to land. and if i'm right about the time, then the runway would be finished or partially finished on Hydra Island that Benry was forcing Sawyer and Kate to work on in season 3.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I am going to disagree with you for the time being on Sunn and Syiad being in the same time frame as the other losties.

Anonymous said...

JJ:

we'll see, dawg. could the 815 losties all be spread over various times if separated? Locke, Juliet, and Sawyer were all in the same time earlier this season even though they weren't together.... same with Jin i think. now that we see Jack,Kate,Hurley in the same time with Jin, but have yet to see Sayid and Sun. BUT, Jack woke up far from where Kate and Hurley were... we are safe to assume that Juliet, Sawyer, Miles, and Faraday are all in the same time as Jin and therefore Jack, Kate, Hurley... so i think Sun and Sayid are with them in the same time, but in a different spot(s) on the island. same with Rose and Bernard.... although they might be dead Adam and Eve in the caves i still suspect.

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

Adam and Eve are Kate and Sawyer, end of series, opting to stay on the island and flashed way back. Ohhh or Helen and Locke?? hmmm.

All guesses on my part, of course.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

Maybe they are in the time periods they are suppose to be in for their own destinies? If a war is coming, Locke being in the 70's will not be any help to the side he is suppose to be on. There was a theory out there on JAY and JACK that Kate was pregnant, a la Claire.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I believe that the tombstone for Helen was fake and they did that to get John back on his mission, that he was failing at.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

OK, here is how Ben will get back on John's goodside. He wakes up, Locke is a little ticked off, for being strangled and is ready to kill Ben, in a moment of brilliance by Ben (that we have come to expect) he will utter the following: "John, I am your father, wanna go hunting"

Anonymous said...

HEATHER:

I agree on this Niel. If they can fake a whole flight being found at the bottom of the ocean with bodies and everything. They can fake that too.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

What about the picture that Hurley was painting, the Sphinx?

Anonymous said...

JULIA:


I didn’t see any LOST discussions yet…are we still doing them? Because last night’s ep was a doozy and I’d love to discuss.

Anonymous said...

JULIA:

turns out JJ dropped me from the distro list so I haven’t been getting anything. But Frank forwarded some to me so I’m putting my thoughts together now.

Anonymous said...

JULIA:

Hey everyone,

Somehow I was dropped from the LOST distro list, but Frank (aka Buzz)
was nice enough to loop me back in. JJ, our political differences
didn't drive you to give me the boot, did they? :-) LOST should
transcend those kind of disagreements!

Anyway, I LOVED this episode...and like JJ, I didn't expect to. I get
sick of Locke's whole "quest for meaning" that only gets him conned and hurt, but here it was taken to a whole new level.

My theory is that neither Widmore or Ben are good guys...and they are
both using Locke as a pawn in their tug of war over the island. They
know he is a sucker for causes and things that make him and his life
full of meaning, that he will believe whatever he is told (to his
detriment) and do their dirty work for them if he believes it is his
destiny. Think back to the Long Con...Widmore and Ben are pulling the world's biggest Long Con on Locke. Not sure how Richard Alpert fits into all of this but I am skeptical of the motives of both Widmore and Ben. We all know Ben's evil history. But Widmore isn't that great, either. Remember, he (a) snapped his fellow soldier's neck rather than have him give up the location of their camp; (b) ordered the Freighter Folk to kill everyone on the island after they extracted Ben and (c) had Keamy shoot Alex in the head, even though she was innocent. So I am thinking they are both evil...

LOVED how Hurley thought Locke was dead when he came to visit. I was
expecting a Charlie cameo, but oh well.

I really liked Locke's visit with Walt, and how in the end he left Walt out of the get back to the Island plan. I'd love them to explore Walt's story more, but if they don't, I'm ok with the way they ended it...he's happy, living a relatively normal life.

I have much more to say but really need to get back to work...be sure to read Doc Jensen's recap on ew.com though...lots of good theories there!

Anonymous said...

JJ:

sorry, Julia. i hadn't noticed you were missing from the list, but i didn't start it today, either... Niel did. so let's blame him for it. i will refrain from any political comments at this time.


as for Keamy killing Alex, i think Keamy did that one his own. Alex did give herself up to them. i bet Keamy just went all terrorist with it. we know that his secondary directive from Widmore included destroying the freighter if they failed to kill Ben, but not much else. i think Alex was not directly named...


plus, what in the world is the deal with Dharma and Hawking and Widmore? if Hawking deals with both Widmore (he knew her address) and Benry, and they were both Others, and then Dharma shows up on the island and we know they were enemies of the others, how on earth is Hawking in a Dharma station and Widmore has a notebook locked in the safe for Keamy with a Dharma logo on it? i want to know how Widmore, once an Other is connected with Dharma, let alone Hawking with either outfit. we know Benry was only part of Dharma cause his daddy was, but then he switched sides and joined the Others and killed Dharma... he may have continued to keep the Dharma stations and equipment going he thought would be useful, but we know he was against DI for the most part... so what's the story?


as for Buzz's history lesson needs:


i'm not sure what year Ben was born or how old he is, but we know DI starts prior to 1980 and that Benry arrives on the island prior to that year also as a boy. Benry executes his genocide on Dharma sometime around in the early nineties because it has to happen after Kelvin joins the DI and we know he joins after the Iraq Gulf War. The genocide fails to kill Kelvin Inman in the Swan (possibly because they could not locate that station), leaving him waiting forever for his replacement, but still getting Dharma food drops somehow... the Flame is also still operational, but under Ben's control and using Patchy to run it. perhaps this sham was able to fool DI into thinking all was well on the island still, but who knows. especially if Widmore is truly Dharma and used it for island control until the genocide...

Anonymous said...

HEATHER:

I love the theory that Kate is preggers and it will be with Jack's baby too! And you're right, it does make her the preggers passenger on the plane a la Claire.

Anonymous said...

TRACI:

Now that we know Ben killed John and he didn't comit suicide, Ben now stands in for Sawyer who killed someone before boarding the plane in Sydney (although I am still going to stand by my theory that Kate killed Aaron and she is the stand in for Sawyer).