Thursday, February 12, 2009

L-O-S-T, Season 5, Episode 5 (This Place Is Death!)

First off, Doc Jensen's article... 
 
_________________

I started today's discussion:
 
What did you guys think? I don't think it was as strong as some of the other episodes we've seen this year. But I like the Jin-centric storyline and the re-emergence of the Smoke Monster. I want them to go find the warding system for that. We didn't ever really find out if that was built by Dharma, the Others or maybe a lost civilization. 
  
I like that we see how the smoke monster made Rousseau think everyone was sick on the island. No wonder she's so crazy. She had to kill the father of her child, for God's sake. And how about that smoke monster! It is "guarding the temple"... the temple, btw, reminded me of the Stone Foot that we saw before... with what appear to be hieroglyphs. Anyone know ancient Egyptian? 
  
Farraday/Charlotte link is kind of crazy. I guess she isn't his daughter-although that isn't ruled out completely. She remembers a crazy guy from the island from when she was there before. 
  
And lastly Locke- ew, bone. 

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I am going to have to disagree and say it was an awesome episode, all of them have been good so far, but this was the first episode that I screamed "Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" when it was over. It was like they were about to tell us all kinds of information and it ends or Charlotte dies. She thinks Daniel was the crazy guy in the jungle and did anyone else catch one of her ramblings about "marrying an American" ???

Question, why did the ruins disappear when they jumped? Also I don't know if Locke is coming back alive when they get back to the island, Christian Shepard showing up in life or death situations never works out well. Ask Michael. Plus he was pretty harsh on ol Locke as well.

One last thing nice use of image of the record skipping in episode 1 and then the donkey wheel skipping like the record.

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

I'm with Neil here - I thought this one was good. There is a definite feeling that, since they know the date of the last episode, they can pack a lot into each episode knowing how they're going to tie it all up.

If I am recalling correctly, last season there was lots of "Jeremy (aka Locke) came to visit me" and "What did Jeremy tell you?" and stuff like that. So that leads me to believe that Locke arrives alive - and then dies eventually.

I like Jin (or 'Jinn' if you read ew.com's Jeff Jensen article) and his story too. Great to see an episode that focused on him, instead of him being in the background and reacting all the time.

Charlotte's death wasn't all that impacting for me. Her mention of Daniel (or someone who looked like Daniel) telling her all that 'island is bad' and 'dont come back' stuff is obviously leading to a scene later this season where Daniel, flashing back during the beginning stages of Dhamra to talk to a young Charlotte.

I bet we spend 5+ episodes at the "Temple" eventually.

I liked how Desmond just kind of showed up. I was half expecting Ben to say "Is Penny with you?" (cause, ya know, he's gonna kill her).

It also sucked that everyone (except Hurley) were all together for a few minutes there then split up again. It was like when we knew who would leave the island last season and they'd all get together around the helicopter and you'd think "yay, they're leaving" then they'd split up again.

There's much more to talk about....

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I told my wife, be prepared for a showdown with Ben and Penny unless Desmond has her hidden because I am sure Jack will mention it. " Hey brotha, where's Penny, you know Ben wants to kill her" What about the priceless look on Ben's face when he finds out Eloise is Daniel's mother. Leads me back to my theory that Whidmore and Eloise (Ellie) had a thing once, they are both off the island and trying to get back.

I think at this point Jin wishes he was dead, go out on raft, it blows up, go to the freighter, it blows up, crazy French chick trying to kill me and he still can't understand anyone.

Hey we have to give credit to the Frenchies, instead of running away and surrendering they actually went down to into the hole.

Anonymous said...

ALISON:

I thought this one was great too--but I haven't read anything from
outside sources. Niel and I noticed the Eloise wasn't surprised to see
Des, but Ben didn't seem to know that Eloise was Faraday's mother. Ben, who always seems to know all. I too don't want to wait a full week to see what happens next.

This is probably a remedial LOST question, but the when in time that
Locke moved the island? Is it still soon after the O'6 left? Or is it
closer to the 3 years later, and that's why there's the 70-hour
deadline? And how will the other O'6 get back if the island has moved?

Hawking said that Jack and Sun would do "for now." I notice she has the map and pendulum, but if that's case, then she can always find the island and I still don't get the deadline.

And I wonder if there's more significance about Charlotte speaking Korean, since she hid it from everyone.

Anonymous said...

ALISON:

Niel is trying to prepare me for Penny to die. Just can't go there.

Anonymous said...

H:

Per Lostpedia....Ben drives a van with the name "Canton-Rainier". This is an anagram for "re-incarnation" Lostpedia also indicates that even though Robert tells Rousseau the smoke monster protects the temple, she tells the survivors that it protects the island. Somewhere that changed for her.

I disagree that Ellie is trying to get back on the island, it seems like she's the one person who could go back whenever she wants. She seems to have the key. But I do like the idea that she had a thing with Charles Widmore.

Also, I agree that is weird that the ruins disappeared when they jumped. That doesn't make sense unless someone tore them down to detract from the history of the island? Same thing with the well? That doesn't make sense to me either that it would be just gone. So does that mean they filled it in when the Orchid was built because now there's another way in? They must have built it since Dharma was founded because Charlotte knew where it was. Dharma/The Scientists go through and tear down temples... relates to the whole battle between Jack and Locke since the beginning of the show. Faith vs. Science.

Anonymous said...

FRANK:
Ok, you guys are losing me.

The Orchid vs the Well. I thought this was "hey look there's the orchid" *whooosh* Oh crap, the orchid is gone because we traveled back before the orchid was built, but look over here, a well.

Jin and The Temple. I thought this was "look, a temple, oh no, smoke monster dragged my new friends under it, dont go, severed arm, oh no" *whoooosh* "friends disappear, decayed severed arm" But I recall the temple was still there. Am I wrong? Has this been noted outside of our email group? And this whooosh was only a month or so because Roussiou is still pregnant.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

Could be right about Hawking, also it would follow that Walt should be showing up since Bentham (Locke) visted him as well. But Walt can just sort of appear from nowhere, I think it was one of the mobepisodes that Juliet asked Michael (HE'S MY SON) if Walt ever appeared somewhere he shouldn't have been.

Dharma could have very well torn everything down, maybe they were on a destroy everything Locke seemed to be in in season 4, makes since if Locke is trying to return the island back to it's original state.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I think the well is pre-orchid and then the rope in the dirt is post Dharma? I agree with the Jinn timeline and who delivered Dannille's baby, Ethan?

Anonymous said...

ALISON:

Or maybe there was time travel before and Charlotte saw it. The island has moved before. right?

Anonymous said...

JAMIE:

Here is what I as thinking about the ruins disappearing:

Maybe they saw the temple, and then (a) jumped back in time before there was a temple, but there was a well in existence that maybe the ancient island people knew had powers and built the temple to honor, or (b) jumped forward in time to where Dharma had destroyed the temple but left the well.

Then when Locke was going down the well I was thinking that they definitely jumped way back into time before the temple was built and even before the well was dug.

But Locke would have been safe down in the well by the "Wheel of Time" since that is an area that regulates the where the island is in time, and therefore out of the regular time/space thing as we know it.

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

I mentioned this last week and it's still bugging me that it hasn't been addressed on the show yet:

Where are Rose and the rest of the group that didn't meet back up at the creek?

I laugh when I picture them all sitting on the beach talking then *whoooosh*, they pause talking, looking around, oblivious because no landmarks/people have changed, and continue talking. Or better yet, they're walking around, talking with past Eko, or past Dharma members, etc, basically messing up all kinds of space/time continuum nonsense.

OMG, Bernard is Jacob!

Anonymous said...

NIEL (to ALISON Q):

I don't think we know for certain, but it is pretty much a yes I think.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

Well I think they are out of extra losties since you can only blow up so many, shoot with flamming arrows. But Rose and Bernie... I think there may be a sinster darkside to old Bernie and Rose. How much would that suck for Bernie and Rose though, whoosh, "hey look we have our dharma food back and tents" whoosh " oh hell, now we are back to mangos and rubbing two sticks together. Where ever they are you can count on Rose nagging the hell out of Bernie, "Bernard, you are a dentist"

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

I think the Well/Orchid area and the Temple are two entirely different places.

Temple Ruins: Smokey dragged 3/4th of the French dude underneath temple, Jinn stops Roussou from going in, whoosh, ruins still there, Roussou and babydaddy fighting on beach.

Orchid: Look, Orchid is here, whoosh, Orchid is gone (travel back in time, since it hasnt been built yet, Charlette remembers well from pre-Orchid being build), Locke goes in well, whoosh, back further in time before well even exists, but since Sawyer held onto rope, it traveled with him.

But those were happening at the same time as Jin - but Jin didnt go "back, back, back" like Locke and Co. did.

Hmm.

Anonymous said...

H-

Jamie- Don't get me started on Wheel of Time, or you guys will find out how much of a geek I am for reading Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

Jinn may have since we didn't see his part in all the jumping around.

Anonymous said...

TROY:

I'm still working through this... so please be gentle if there is an obvious contradiction...

Is there any chance that the losties and the frenchies are on two different 'frequencies' of time travel? ie - when Russo tells them it's 1988 it isn't really, but instead she thinks it is 1988 (when they left), but they have already hopped at least once?

I'd like to see a time line of each of the Locke/Sawyer groups time jumps and see where Jinn was at that time - and if the perception of when it was corresponds to the losties perception of when it was.

Totally thinking out loud...

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I think it is only the losties that are jumping in time and if they encounter anyone it would be in that groups original timeline.

Anonymous said...

JJ:

you guys are killing me...

Jin is spelled "Jin" with only one "n." hello, there are subtitles with Jin's name spelled out for us all the time for us to read.

second, after all of the confusing emails you guys just wrote, Buzz has it right about the Temple and the Orchid being two different locations and the timeline for both the episode ending prior to the well being dug at all. i didn't think it was that hard to figure out the anything made by man hasn't always been there. clearly the last flash predates the construction of the well...

and as for Rose and Bernard, we know we last saw them running from the flaming arrow attack... they are out there hiding in the jungle and may even be dead already from the time travel sickness. i was wondering if they ran for the caves maybe to hide and now they are the Adam and Eve bodies from season one. or we'll see them later... either way, i have noticed we almost only see Rose and Bernard in season premiers and season finales. the writers have noted on the podcast they use them sparingly on purpose to bounce dialogue off of or make some kind of character effecting point. so i'm not worried about them and don't expect to see them until the season finale...

i thought this was a great ep. had the smoke monster, more island history, a good Jin storyline, the wheel again, Christain Shepard, somebody died, we saw the Temple for the first time, we heard the numbers being transmitted prior to Roussou changing the transmission, we saw a lot or Roussou's story, and the Oceanic 6 drama was pretty intense, plus a leave you wanting more ending. i thought it was the best episode so far this season.

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

I'm referring to him as Jinn now. Read Doc Jensen.

Anonymous said...

JULIA:

Read the Doc Jensen recap and you’ll understand the extra N, JJ. It’s an attempt at humor.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

Jinn's story was good, hahahaha for you J.J.

Anonymous said...

H:
I agree that there are two different locations b/t the Temple and the Orchid and never meant to imply otherwise. "The timeline for both the episode ending prior to the well being dug at all. Not sure what you mean there, but I don't think that it is implied (or that we should necessarily impy anything on Lost) that Locke ended up at a time prior to the well being dug at all. I also disagree when you say that "clearly the last flash predates the construction of the well... " Why is that true?

"i didn't think it was that hard to figure out the anything made by man hasn't always been there." Um, that's true. I just think we're limited in our knowledge of a timeline of when things happened on the island. There's nothing to say that the well that was there at least when Charlotte was a child hasn't been covered up since then. Otherwise, there is another entrance to The Orchid and the Wheel. The wheel WAS built at some point and time.

Also, if the island hasn't physically moved in the past, then how did the desert connection happen (Charlotte studied ancient Carthage) and the polar bears got on the island too. Maybe Locke was supposed to physically move it, not move it in time as Ben has done.

Anonymous said...

JJ:

i don't have time to read Doc Jensen right now or even be reading these... his name is JIN and you guys are all dorks. as clever as Jensen is, he doesn't write the show! forgive me for not being privy to the inside joke.


Troy -
i know what you are saying, but we had several flashes of Sawyer and co after the business with the H-bomb where they had no frame of reference when they were... these are the same flashes we saw Jin experience last night until he met up with them and then they were all together. Roussou and co are indeed in their true time of 1988 and they are not jumping through time, but experieincing it normally.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

Are you stuck in a time loop, you already sent this.

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

I heard/read something about the polar bears possibly being trained to turn the wheel, which would explain why one was found in the desert.

Anonymous said...

JJ:

Heather,

sorry about my grumpy tone... i'm not feeling well and not able to get any rest, so i apologize. i just thought it was frustrating that i read twenty emails with several folks referencing the well not being there anymore and how could even it's ruins be totally gone and not one time did anyone mention that it might be because it hadn't been dug yet (until Buzz, another 10 emails later.) so i thought it was silly that no one mentioned it or thought of it in all that time... that the flash simply HAD to be post well and then where were it's ruins? i am thinking the audience is maybe supposed to not get so engrossed in these lesser timeline details, of which things are happening before which other things as we are to learn the island's key event history. that's all. didn't mean to start something...

Anonymous said...

FRANK:

Firstly: JJ is, and always will be, my constant.

Furthermore:

The island time travel has us talking, yay for writers. I don't ever recall wondering stuff like "Do you think Mulder already knew that Scully was going to doubt him so he went back to before they met and spit in her coffee?" or "Do you think the monkey that Chandler and Joey was traveling thru time and later when they got the duck that the duck knew the monkey?" or "do you think Balky was lying when he told Cousin Larry that he was being reediculous?"

Anyhow, I think the time travel stuff was pretty straight forward last night... EXCEPT... I don't recall the exact sequence of events, but I know it was right after Jin(n) flashed after Roussou shot her babydaddy and then there was a rustle in the jungle and it was Sawyer. Like 10 seconds after Jin(n)'s flash. I immediately thought that Jinn and Sawyer/Co. were whooshing at different time intervals, but that was (I believe) not the case. So... wouldn't Sawyer have been all "oh no not again!" with the flash before he approached Jin(n)? The timing just seemed odd. I need to watch that again.

Anonymous said...

H:

It is okay if JJ is your constant and your schmoopy Frank. We don't think any less of either of you. Especially at such a romantic time of year.

No worries at all JJ... we've all been there. I think we're just trying to figure out and make sense of the timeline and hoping some clues emerge based on the man-made structures that are and are not there at any given "time", because in my experience in watching this show, everything they do is pretty deliberate. Hope you're feeling better soon, my friend.

Anonymous said...

AMY:

I have been wondering about something. It looked like Jin asked Charlotte to translate even though the rest of them assumed he was talking to Miles. Did anyone else notice that? If he was talking to her I cannot remember how he knew she spoke Korean. My husband also thought he noticed Jin talking to Charlotte, not Miles...

Anonymous said...

TROY:

I noticed this and wondered the exact same thing... after watching the episode again yesterday I felt it was 'odd', but dont have any explanation...

Anonymous said...

NIEL:

Sunn busted her in season 4 and told her she knows that Charlotte can speak Korean. They made a joke out of everyone thinking Miles could translate and Miles replies "He is Korean, i'm from Encino"