As always, let's start with Doc Jensen's spoilers article (here) and his review (here) and Totally Lost (here).
Frank noted: Did anyone notice the new Dharma symbol that Hurley "The Cook" had? Thought it was a nice touch. (See here.) And the following fun stuff (see here).
JJ got us started in our discussion this week:
Hey everybody. last night's episode was ok... nothing really special for the most part. until the freaking ending blasted everything in the universe apart ! ! ! ! ! !
now i kind of new Sayid wold make a play to kill Benry at some point once he found out when they were, but i thought the island would not let him be killed. so much for that! (my jaw was on the ground for like five minutes after Sayid pulled the trigger. even though it's Ben, he was still just a kid. unbelievable and shocking to see.) so, is this a massive "course corrections?" i don't see how because for me this changes absolutely everything. the writer's have made it clear that they do not use paradoxes with the time travel writing, but this is like the mother of all paradoxes... Faraday has layed out rules that the Losites can't change the past, but Sayid just did and big time. let's break it down.... if Benry is really dead as a child:
Benry now cannot wipe out Dharma and become leader of the others
Benry will no longer kidnap Alex from Danielle Roussou when she is an infant
Benry will not lead the others to bring certain people to the island, mainly Juliet, but potentially the Losties as well
no abduction of Walt or raids on the tail section
no capture by Danielle
no torture by Sayid
no killing of Ana Lucia and Libby by Michael to free Benry from the hatch
no cages no runway gets built on hydra island for flight 316
no war with the others
no huge manipulation of John Locke and everyone else....
and possibly NO plane crash of 815 at all!!!! why? because with Dharma not wiped out by Ben, then Swan would still be operational with two people, therefore if Desmond still were to shipwreck, then he would never be taken to the hatch and would never be too late in pushing the button when he was off killing Kelvin which causes 815 to crash,
which, in turn would mean the Losties never go to the island anyway, so how could Sayid even be there now to kill Benry? and what's more, Benry couldn't be there for to overthrow Widmore as leader of the others, possibly making Penny an indigenous island hositle (therefore never meeting Desmond and never giving him reason to sail in the race and shipwreck on the island at all!!!) is your head hurting yet? how about this: no murder of John Locke, no murder of Anthony Cooper by Sawyer, no murder of Alex by Keamy to acquire Benry, no freighter, on and on and on....
so, if all that is true, then everything that happened on the show up until now hasn't happened anymore making it all meaningless, or still happens but now by totally different means: DESTINY.
Troy and Lisa and XX and i all watched the show together last night... we had out brains scrambled pretty good over this. but Troy and i talked about it and thought of a few things:
Benry isn't dead at all and everything still happens
Benry is dead, but "course correction" will make everything still happen but through perhaps a WORSE leader then Benry
Benry is dead, but none of it is really happening except in the minds of the Losties as their consciousness flashes through time, like Desmond, but without going back and forth
but then i thought of a couple more things: what if Benry dies so John Locke can become the leader of the others, but much younger so Ben never does? what if John (the supposed "intended leader" of the others) is a worse leader then Benry, and all the afore mentioned incidents still happen, but by HIS hand, generating new memories in all the Losties heads and changing how they relate to each other and their alternate pasts.....what if the title of the next episode is our answer: "Whatever Happened, Happened" and all this talk, indeed is just drivel. that it all will still happen anyway, because Benry will get resurrected, just like Locke was.
this episode, flying in the face of "the rules" and everything the writers have said they hate about time travel has really got me thinking... they wouldn't do this if it were paradoxical.. they must be doing something to either trick us or pose a completely different direction in the show to get us to the end without being able to figure it all out.... i can't wait to hear how evasive and non-helpful they are during the podcast later today. in the season's opener, Pierre Change tells the construction boss building the Orchid when he asks if they are going to go back and kill Hitler not to be absurd. that, "you can't change to past." just like Faraday says later in the same episode. well the "Hitler" of L O S T was just killed as a boy in the past... did his adult self just go "poof" in 2007 and vanish from the make shift infirmary with the 316 survivors? is 316 even there now? i can't figure any of it out now.... they have got me (and us) right where they want us.