Thursday, January 29, 2009

L-O-S-T, Season 5, Episode 3 (Jughead)

First, start with Doc Jenson's review.

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JJ Started Us Off Again:

Widmore.


hey everyone. last nights ep was kind of boring for me through some of it and i was kind of expecting a bit more to happen really. it was a Desmond ep, which are almost always the best ones and Jensen teased it up pretty good, so i was really wanting a lot of heavy mental fixation. well, it lagged for me in those areas, until the end and then my brained melted. WIDMORE.

So, most of the episode felt a lot like distraction: John needing to speak with Richard, the dudes they captured speaking Latin, the focus on Faraday and Charlotte and Miles on the island, Desmond trying to locate Faraday's mom, and of course the "Jughead" A-bomb. all of it was rendered totally as nothing more than set up or truly as distraction once two things happen: first that Richard refers to the young soldier (soldier costumes - trick #1) with "Jones" on his shirt (Trick #2) as WIDMORE. well this changes about a dozen things that we have discussed here on our emails. We have been presuming for a long time that Widmore was Dharma and his war with Ben is over Benry killing all the Dharma peeps. at least i did! well, if we see Widmore as an Other when he is young in 1954, then that chnages EVERYTHING on that front.... when we see Widmore in this episode, is he the chosen one for Jacob at that time and Richard is training him up to be top dog? does Widmore take over later and then BENRY is chosen in his place, starting their fued -- like first Widmore is Jacob's boy, then Benry replaces him and then Locke replaces Benry? does this set up some sort of chain of accepted as special, but then rejected later recurring history of embittered fallen leaders on the island, all of whom want their place and the island back? or does Widmore wish he had been chosen by Jacob, thought he was going to be (like Locke) but wasn't, and now he is bitter? was Penny born on the island, and if so how? when did Widmore leave the island and why? since Widmore was once an Other, how in the world did he have a Dharma 2nd Protocol directive to have ready for Keamy on the frieghter? i am wondering if Widmore was an other, was kicked out of the others and then started the Dharma Initiative as a Trojan Horse to find it again, control it and wipe out the Others for exiling him... but who knows.


mind scrambler number two: Locke telling Richard about himself and when he's born.... is John really special or chosen at all? did this exchange actually propel Richard forward to seeking out Locke when he never would have at all if not for this conversation? why does John look so old if he's only 48 years old? and here's an even bigger one: Widmore interacted with Juliet, Sawyer, Miles, Charlotte, Faraday, and Locke in this episode. once Charles Widmore is off the island, does he use this knowledge to track all of these people and in their pre-Flight 815 lives to see WHEN they crash on the island and he is ready to kick things into action right then to sink the fake plane, and ready the frieghter to locate it? has he been watching the Losties since before any of them were born because of the interactions that happened in this episode? all of that is so crazy if that's the case.... are the Others and the the Losties one different strings in time that overlap, so they can changed one another's paths, but not their own, i wonder...


and finally, Desmond and Penny named their son Charles aka Charlie.... after both Charles Widmore and Charlie Pace... or is little Charlie Hume really old Charles Widmore as a boy and he'll end up on the island with Des and Penny in the past as the island loops in time and then grow up there like Ben among the Others. maybe we could guess that Penny is not his daughter, but maybe he learns that she's his mother and he's been protecting and steering his own mother all his life and making sure Desmond meets her and they fall in love, but also that he makes it to the island first before truly ending up with her, so he will then father Charles and take him to the island as a boy to grow up into the Charles Widmore we have been seeing. ha! wrap your head around that!!!

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

JJ:

some quick hits i forgot:


#1 - before we know who he is, young Widmore escapes from Juliet, Sawyer and Locke and Sawyer yells at Locke to shoot him, but Locke doesn't. when Sawyer asks him why he didn't, John waits a beat and then answers, "he's one of my people." but is it actually because the island would not LET him shoot Charles Widmore


#2 - in my previous email i blubbered about Penny not being Widmore's daughter but actually possibly his mother, but forgot to say that of course, SHE would not know about Widmore being her son and not her father... that Charles would keep it from her, thus amping up the control factor on her life and Desmond's to ensure his own birth at the right time.... of course i'm sure this is NOT at all what is really going on with Ds and Pen's kid. just putting it out there to give myself an anuerism!


#3 - NO OCEANIC 6 in this episode... honestly, i didn't miss them. their story is so much less interesting right now, it will be really boring when we get back to them.


#4 - Penny's acting was great in this one. her quiet fuming disapproval of Des's choices is something i experience regularly myself from a certain wife i know.


#5 - how did the US military find the island to do A- of H-bomb tests, and then lose it and their bomb? is their a true historical account of our government losing a bomb or two in the 50's i wonder?


#6 - i think Jensen and Sniersen floated this possibilty: that a certain formula of ingredients has to be met to locate the island, and one of those ingredients is a dead body... that Flight 815 only crashed on the island because Chistian Shepard's body was on board, same with Eko's brother Yemi on the drug plane, and that's why Ben says they MUST bring Locke's body with them to go back to the island. but how can this work when you consider how the helicopter found the island last season?

Anonymous said...

Niel:

Going along with my running Widemore has been on the island before, I think Widmore was chosen to move the island to keep it safe from the U.S. military and their bomb tests and then he created/co-created the DI to find the island and that is when he has his run in with Ben. I think Hanso/Widmore/Hawking and perhaps Abadeon(?) where all on the island together at one point and left or forced to leave and with the DI they were trying to figure out how to come back to the island when along came Ben and his little gas canisters,
Also you left out another big part from last night, blondie with the rifle who Daniel remarks "you remind me of some one" perhaps your mother Daniel, since Richard or Widmore can't remember which, called her Elly... Eloise Hawking !!!!! Then perhaps Widemore is Daniel's father????
I also think not every one is following Daniel's advice of "we cannot change the past" since I think John telling Richard to come visit him in 2 years when he is born initiated that meeting, maybe John is not special at all???

Anonymous said...

Alison:


I personally don't think the factor is just a dead boy. I think it's important because it's Locke. Niel is throwing out my theories as wrong, but I think that Charlotte's problems have something to do with the possibility of her being born on the island, and when she was born. Yes, this contradicts the guys on the boat, but we don't know their back story. And I'm not positive that Miles was born on the island--but Niel has convinced me he's Marvin's son. I also think the hatch imploding has something to do with how the island is moving. Yes, it started jumping after Ben turned the wheel, but Des started having flashes after he turned the key. And we have no idea of its (the island's) behavior before. It could have skipped and then quit skipping. And the power to harness time requires a huge amount of energy--such as the implosion. They haven't harnessed time, but the island is certainly moving through it as it chooses--or, at least, certain people on the island are moving. We also know the island might have been moved before--so maybe time travel really doesn't have anything to do with the implosion, but it sped up with the next move of the island.

Good call on not being able to shot Charles Widmore. Can't change the past. I totally buy that as well after the island wouldn't let Michael kill himself.

Niel looked it up last night. The woman taking Faraday to Jughead is called Ellie--as in Eloise. As in Hawkins. For an episode without that many big reveal moments it still makes my head spin trying to figure it all out.

Anonymous said...

Julia:

I thought this was a fantastic episode…not as action-packed as last week’s premiere but still full of great stuff and a few big questions were answered…leaded to even more questions (of course). Here are my quick thoughts:



I am always a big fan of Desmond-centric eps, and this didn’t disappoint. I definitely think Des and Pen’s son Charlie is named for our favorite Driveshaft member, not for Charles Widmore, although I guess you never know. I got a little knot in my stomach when Des and Penny decided to go to LA to find Mrs. Hawking…I know they have to do that but if these two do not get their happy ending when the shows comes to a close, I am going to be pretty bitter. I wanted to tell at Penny :”Don’t go to LA! Ben is there and he wants to kill you to get revenge on your father!” And I have to say, as someone who has gotten the sailing bug over the past couple of years, I am v. jealous of their huge sailboat…it has to be a really nice one because the cabin has a real bed in it and is huge (at least compared to the boats I know).
JJ, your theory about baby Charlie being Charles Widmore and Penny really being his mom made my head spin a bit…but after thinking on it I am going to respectfully disagree. BUT, what if Penny’ mom is Mrs. Hawking? It seems pretty obvious that the surly Other Ellie is Mrs. Hawking back in the day and she was on the island at the same time as Widmore…and I don’t remember any eps where Penny’s mom is discussed. That could make it very interesting when Des and Penny finally track Mrs. Hawking down in LA.
I really like Faraday, but his Mr. Sensitive persona took a hit when they showed Theresa, the woman who has been permanently damaged through his Oxford experiments. What was their relationship? Why did he abandon her? Why is she just catatonic and not dead like some of the other time travelers?
LOVE that Richard Alpert is getting so much screen time…his character is so interesting and I can’t wait to find out the story behind (a) how he got to the island (b) why he doesn’t age (c) why he seems to be in charge some of the time but then cedes the authority to Ben (and Locke) later.
The EW recap brought up a good theory…it was Jughead that was buried under the Swan station and the button had to be pushed every 108 minutes to release the energy from the leaking bomb…and that when the fail safe key was turned it released the energy, creating the time rifts. Desmond was affected the most because he was right there and turned the key.


I thought there were several “AHA” moments in this episode that really explained things from earlier seasons…



Widmore was an Other!! It explains his tie to/obsession with the island. He sounded so possessive of the island…saying he knows it better than anyone, etc. I’m curious to see how/why he left the island. But I agree with JJ and think that he founded Dharma to find the island again and maybe to recreate the Others again…or to try and force them away from “his” island. It seems like the war between Widmore and Ben stems from who got to control the Others and most likely Widmore’s expulsion from the island.
Locke giving Alpert back his compass and then telling him to “come and visit me in 1956” explains why Alpert came to the hospital when Locke was born, and then why he was disappointed when young Locke did not select the compass when he came back again a few years later. One of the things I love most about LOST is how they have such a big picture view…things from one or more seasons ago get resolved through explanations down the road. The thought they put into this story is one of the reasons it is so engrossing.


So far I am really enjoying this season…hope they keep it up with the great storytelling!

Anonymous said...

Niel:


I am going to agree and disagree with you J.J. about Penny being Widmore's mother (she's my sister, my mother, my sister, ChinaTown anyone?) I had thought about the bomb being buried under the SWAN as well, explains why they have all that concrete down there in a patchwork of repair.

Anonymous said...

JJ:

hey guys,


ok! for the record I don't even agree with the theory i posed about young Charlie Hume being Charles Widmore! i think it's crazy interesting, but don't at all believe that i'm right. i just wanted to hurt my own brain and then felt i should share it with everyone because it hurt so much!


i was going to mention the same thing, too about Elle possibly being Eloise Hawking who we all think is Faraday's mom. just ran out of time to get it in this morning.


and remember: Locke never told Richard to come and see him as a boy, he merely stated when and where he was going to be born! so Richard will track Locke down on his own or by Jacob's direction. Locke never said to come find him....


and then i was thinking a lot too about Faraday totally leaving that test subject chick all comatose and stuff and it contradicting the Faraday we know on the island, but remember that when Desmond goes to see him at Oxford in 1996, he is kind of a jerk. he thinks he knows everything and is mister matter of fact science prick. so, maybe he was pretty callouse with that girl he did tests on and when it put her life in jeopardy, he bolted to save his own butt. scientists are all the same....


finally, if Widmore did start the Dharma Initiative, or at least help start it or run it or whatever, are all the orientation films cons? are they designed to portray the DI a certain way to their own people, but in actuality it really is just another group of Others fighting to control/possess the island? are Hanso and the DeGrouts mentioned in the Swan film even real? the experiments? or is it all staged to trick the DI people, and eventually the Losties and the audience. another baby Aaron! It's Walt they were after and we all fell for it. perhaps Ben is right and Dharma was a big joke and we all thought they were legitmately studying things, and maybe even some of the DI were, but the overall deal with Dharma was BS... just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Alison:

I think there's way more to the girl the coma. I think Faraday might have no choice but to leave, and I don't buy that he just left her without something else going on.

Anonymous said...

Niel:

I wonder if he listened to a lot The Smiths... It was interesting that her sister said some times she will be talking to their father who has been dead and other times asking for her dolly. Is she time travelling?

Anonymous said...

Kelly:

How long has the coma lady been like that again?

Maybe she's time traveling....like the character Fisher Steven's played on the freighter ship...ya know the guy that died....he looked like he was in a coma but was really moving through time spaces...he'd wake up and then take off to another time....she does wake up at some points and talks abut the past and seeing "dead" people...well maybe they were really alive when she was visiting them?

I dont know my memory is a little blurry but I'm pretty sure she's just traveling and having a good ole time and we really dont realize it....

Anonymous said...

Kelly:

Niel you totally stole my thunder! he, he ...but I agree with you 100%

Anonymous said...

John G:


I agree, I think she's unstuck in time - maybe she lost her constant - and maybe Charlotte is headed in the same direction as coma girl.

Anonymous said...

Julia:

I think that was one of the reasons Faraday was telling Charlotte he loved her…providing her with a constant so she can survive all of the time jumping. Didn’t look like it worked too well though…

Anonymous said...

Niel:


A little late there Romeo, is bleeding from the ears, nose and mouth a bad thing...

Anonymous said...

JJ:

because she doesn't love him! Charlotte is just a cold ginger user chick. she doesn't care about Daniel. poor guy...


anyway, i think Coma girl has her constant - her sister who is taking care of her, but unlike how Desmond's constant "cured" him of his time jumping, maybe coma girl got a different kind of exposure and she can't get better. her constant keeps her from dying from it, but the damage is permanent. Faraday said to someone at one point that the side effects are unpredictable and different for everyone. so Desmond's and Minkowski had similar issues, but Regina and coma girl might have different ones... this time jumping stuff is getting pretty complicated.

Anonymous said...

Alison:

And I think coma girl looks a lot younger than her sister. Maybe that's part of it too. Or maybe they are just far apart in age.

Anonymous said...

Frank:

Too busy today to add too much, but chew on this:

British Other = Elly (I know it's already been discussed) = Eloise

Time travel Ms. Knowitall = Eloise

Farraday's time traveling rat = Eloise

So... Maybe they're all just rats in a giant maze?

g'night.

Anonymous said...

Heather:

I don't have time to post today either

I KNOW, I KNOW ITS SERIOUS. BTW... Thanks a lot Niel... I can't get that song out of my head now.

I've been following along.

I like that idea Frank, that they're rats in a giant maze. Esp since it seems like the Dharma stations are also experiments on people ... sending the reports in the bank tubes to nowhere, pushing the numbers every 109 minutes, etc.

Anonymous said...

Heather:

Also, one other thought, I had a baby theory but not involving baby Charlie. What if Teresa is really Farraday's daughter with Charlotte, and that is why he was spending all that time with her before he left her (to go find out how to save her from bleeding out with jumps?) Maybe Ellie (Daniel's mother) reminds him of someone he knows (Theresa- who would be Ellie's granddaughter?)

Anonymous said...

Troy:

My wife and I noticed something that you all missed... something that unwraps the entire saga of LOST... and I can't believe you all missed it.

If you watched closely... you could observe Walt eating some Tyson chicken nuggets and enjoying them a great deal. I don't think that I need to explain what all this means in regards to the island and time travel.

;) Okay, just kidding... but did you guys catch it? First or second commercial break had him as a kid in a commercial.

Pretty funny... both of us set up quickly thinking it was in some way connected to the show.

Anonymous said...

Heather:

A couple things here, first someone on Aint It Cool news says Mrs. Hawking (Daniel's Mom) was either married to Desmonds Monk Superior or brother/sister with them... and that there was a picture of the two on a desk somewhere. Also interesting, in reference to the Swan Station... a U.S. Swan Device (tested June 22, 1956...
[with a yield of] 15 kilotons, about the same as Little Boy, the Hiroshima bomb.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon

Anonymous said...

The Faraday Cage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

And was Widmore Captain of the Black Roque? Was Richard Alpert?