Let's Start With Doc Jensen's EW Article.
Also, JJ Started Today's discussion:
good morning everyone.
i will not have time to really participate much today, but want to get things started with some questions for everyone to kick around.
Has Sayid always worked for Benry? The master of lies and the master of detecting lies working together is brilliant... how long has it been like this? do all of the O'6 work for Benry or just Sayid. or maybe just Sayid and Kate? hmmm. And I'm sure the "Economist" is the creepy black dude.
What is up with Sayid being so weepy? from not wanting to torture anymore on the island he has become a killer off the island. another worse future for a Lostie post-island. he obviously is not happy with his new life, even though at first it seemed he was (on the golf course - how odd did that look!?!?!)
Why could Sayid not tell that Hurley was lying? to my knowledge this is the first time i can think of that Sayid was not able to detect a person lying. was it merely because it was Hurley and no one would have ever suspected Hurley to do all Benry on anyone?
Really liked the exchange of Locke, Ben, Sawyer, and Hurley at the location of Jacob's shack and Benry saying Locke needs to be told what to do... In season 1, Locke always said, "don't tell me what i can't do!" to everyone. now he has to be told what TO do or he is L O S T. interesting. There was some symbolism going on in this scene that i thought was too obvious, but if you haven't figured it out, i won't spell it out for you....
the time lag that Daniel found was very very interesting. it wasn't much, but if you think about it and do the math, i bet the time lag turns out to be a huge explanation of many things we have been theorizing about. especially Taller Ghost Walt. perhaps that little bit of time discrepancy added up over how many days the Losties have been on the island will pose a huge storyline development on how long they have really been there - creating part of the reason for the cover up!
Was pondering the idea of Sayid working for Benry and what that could mean. What if Michael also works for Benry, as does Sawyer and a few others... and ALL THIS TIME, they have been working for Benry, taking out Losties and "Others" on purpose that Benry knows are a threat or not on a LIST. what if Walt has always been Jacob from the start, his flashback a ruse, and Michael has been one of Benry's men all along, serving Jacob and manipulating the whole group, especially Locke. this could go many, many different ways... it may be nothing at all and i'm totally wrong. we shall see....
15 comments:
JULIA:
What a great episode…LOST is really back this season. Here are my thoughts:
1. I don’t think Sayid is working for Ben on the island. I think that after the “rescue” whatever it is that the Oceanic 6 are keeping quiet has driven Sayid to work for Ben in order to protect that secret and the people who are the core of the secret. It all goes back to Sayid being a great soldier, but only to a point – he is always moved by his friends and loved ones…that is his weakness. It’s why he trusted Hurley and why he would sell his soul to Ben…to protect the people he cares about. Look how easily he could fall for his mark, Ilsa.
2. I like that so far none of the Oceanic 6 are happy with their lives off the island. Maybe Kate is, but it doesn’t seem like it given the short time we saw her. Again, the whole point of being “rescued” – did it really mean getting off the island, or were the Losties “rescued” from their crappy regular lives when they crashed on the island?
3. FINALLY someone questioned why Kate was so desperate to be rescued. Wouldn’t she just be arrested upon her return to the US? Apologies to JJ, but let’s see…life in prison in the US, or life with Sawyer on a tropical island. Hmm…not a tough decision in my book.
4. Not sure what I think about what looks like a space-time continuum theory for the island. It’s interesting but may be a little too sci-fi for me. I love the human drama/thriller/mystery bits of this show…not sure how I’d feel if it took a hard turn into full on sci-fi. But we’ll just have to see…I do trust the writers, esp. now that they are back.
5. I’m assuming most of you know we’ll get a total of 13 eps this season…so 3 shorter than originally planned, but the exec producers have said that they will still do the full slate of episodes to wrap up the show.
6. As always, I recommend reading Doc Jensen over at www.ew.com. He has 2 good articles this week – one from Thursday and the recap from this morning. Both are really good.
FRANK:
More rambling then anything, but...
I'm not so sure the economist is scary black dude. All signs point to him, but we might be looking more towards a Dharma (or Hanso Foundation) exec at this point in the story. Which might be one in the same (black dude = Dharma = Hanso, or some combination thereof).
The braclets: I'm sure everyone noted that Sayid's flashforward girl had a braclet much like Naomi's bracelet - at first I thought it'd be the same, but it appears the bracelts are different - but I think Sayid saw the one on Naomi and it reminded him of her.
Interesting 'ALL THIS TIME' therioes, but I think there's too much evidence to show that Sawyer, Walt, Micheal, etc were truly strangers to the island. I don't recall how in the earlier seasons they knew Walt was 'special', tho. But back there, we were to believe that 'special' meant 'intelligent, has powers, etc'. We know now that for Ben to think someone is 'special' is more specifically 'special' with respect to communicating with the island. I don't think Walt is 'Jacob', but I'm sure Walt can SEE Jacob, which also might be why Ben was so quick to shove Micheal and Walt off the island.
The time lag: very interesting. this (and the later stuff with Ben's hideout/passports/etc) is showing us that the show is truly starting to pick up steam. Whereas in the past it might have been stretched out more, now they writing is saying 'You think Ben might be leaving the island periodically? he sure is, check this out' and 'you think there's a time difference on the island? check this out'. Very happy with this new and improved pacing. But, of course, with every answer comes 10 more questions.
JJ (our local Lost historian): has there ever been a brief mention in the past about Ben 'leaving' for periods of time? Maybe to go to talk to Jacob, or time he could have snuck off the island? I think there might have been - but at the same time, does there really need to be since the whole time-shifting has been displayed?
Kate's 'he' back home: as Kate mentioned to Jack at last year's season finale, 'he' might be wondering where I am - might Kate be shacking up with Ben? heh, I know, I know...
I thought we had our O'6 dream team starting to form when Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley (when it looked like he 'rescued' Hurley), Desmond (not technically on Oceanic but was back with Jack and Kate)... but that didnt happen. Do you all think Sayid traded Kate too, or was the weepy scenes between her and Sawyer leading us to believe she decided to stay with him? And what's up with Sawyer not wanting to leave the island - didnt really see that one coming.
I was waiting for [the helicopter pilot] to answer Jack when he asked about the Red Sox winning the series something like 'Ya, but that was 3 years ago.'
Of course, Ben at the end -- great scene. I expected to see Christian Shepard repairing Sayid. And Sayid looked pitiful (sure he was shot, but...) - he was at Ben's beck and call! Good stuff.
anyway, what say you all?
JJ:
am in full agreement with Julia about Sayid working for Benry later, not the whole time. it could play out that some of the Losties have always worked for Ben, but i think in Sayid's case i think he as well as some of the rest will become "converts" to Jacob and Ben and the island once they / we learn what it all really is. i also think the Jack will reject this "conversion" to following Jacob / Island and Ben leading to his miserable future because he was supposed to stay, there for a reason, etc.
TODD:
I'll post some info over the weekend.
Last nite was FANTASTIC!!!
JJ:
I think Vincent also is working for Benry!!! (since they ended last night's ep with Sayid going to the "vet's office" with all the doggies)
JULIA:
Ok, JJ, now I think you’ve lost it on the whole Ben conspiracy thing. No offense. J
JJ:
Ah! if you've seen the last Missing Piece at Lost's abc.com page, you might think i am not far from the truth!
FRANK:
Aye, have to agree with JJ on this one. while I don't think we'll see Vincent sitting back and having a chat with anyone about what he knows/doesnt know, after viewing the final 'missing pieces', you wonder what exactly Vincent has and hasnt seen on the island.
JULIA:
Oh, I think that Vincent pretty much knows everything about the island and everyone on it...I just don't think he is in cahoots with Ben.
JULIANNE:
So, back to the guy in the coffin.
I'd been very sure that it was Michael. He would probably have changed his name, and no one would feel like going to his funeral. And now with the time lag, heck, maybe he just dies of old age...
But maybe it's Ben in the coffin. He killed a bunch of people, and we know that someone's after him, so he might change his name to. And I can definitely see no one going to his funeral.
HEATHER:
Who was it in the first season that recommended that they do a black and white episode entirely from Vincent's view? I still love that idea.
FRANK:
I'm still behind it, but I know some people (in and outside of this email group) that have expressed that it wouldn't make sense since dog's dont fully understand whats going on, etc.
It needs to be noted (or reminded if people never read this) but Lost cheated last episode. When they showed the 'flash forward' of Naomi getting the 4 pictures by mysterious-black-man... whose point of view is this flash forward? Can't be Naomi since she's dead and all. All other flashbacks/forwards are from a particular person's point of view. This one, tho, didnt really follow true to the story telling technique.
I also think back to Ben's back story - he was telling it as a narrative to Locke. I wasn't sure then if the story was all made up or not.
We have to believe the all the back stories because they're told from the mind of the person they're about (ie no reason to lie to yourself) - except Ben's. His was told to Locke as they were talking.
a tangent, but something I keep thinking back to.
JJ:
some corrections:
Ben's backstory episode was NOT told to Locke. it flashed in and out just as all the previous character's stories have in relation to what they are experiencing on the island right then. Locke and Ben journeyed out to Jacob's cabin, but said little to each other. Ben revealed nothing about himself to Locke until they stood over the Dharma grave and Ben revealed he used to be Dharma to him, then shot him in the gut. Locke was still believing Ben had been born on the island up until Ben showed him the grave and admitted the bodies were "his people."
also, Naomi's flash and all the flashes in last week's ep were flashbacks, not flashforwards to introduce the new arrivals. Naomi was dead, and that is inconsistent so far (since Niki and Paulo turned out to be paralyzed and not really dead when we got their story), but at least we know from Naomi's exchange with creepy black dude that it was definitely a flashback as she was hired to get the team to the island and then keep them alive.
FRANK:
right, details details.
Naomi's was still a cheat.
HEATHER:
I'll Be With You Always, the bracelet said... RC... who is RC? Is that the economist. The bracelets are similar enough that I wonder who that "bad guy" is?
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