Hello, I'm new (Julianne, nice to meet you). Well I have to wait a little longer until my real comment, since I didn't get to watch everything last night (I had to work very late).
But I get the feeling that this show's going to end like the Gilligan Island movie. Remember how they were all rescued, but they individually each found they'd preferred life on the island? Then at the end of the movie Gilligan gets them all stranded on the same island again..?
Don't worry, I'm sure I'll have something better to add after I get to watch the whole thing.
Note: please remember not to refer to the preview for next week as I don't watch it.
I thought it was good. My wife jumped a few times at the 'Hurley looking in Jacob's Pad' part. Online freeze frames show Christian Shepard sitting in Jacob's chair.
No elaborate theories being developed over here, but a few things to comment on:
1) The guy that told Hurley that someone was looking at him strangely - and then we are lead to believe that Charlie was just in Hurley's head - did he see Charlie, or was he also just in Hurley's head?
2) 'You'd look weird in a beard'. Funny line.
3) So now the show is going down the 'big coverup' angle. I like this. We have the black guy that comes to see Hurley (who's name anagrams to 'the bad boat man') who, obviously not with Oceanic Air, is probably Hanso or whoever gets to the island. And then we have the Oceanic 6's coverup (same one?) or agreement to keep quiet. Weird.
4) Who are your guesses for the Oceanic 6? My guess is Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Claire, and baby - but if baby doesnt count, then either Locke or Desmond.
I found the image of Charlie and his hand "THEY NEED YOU" (when Hurley was in the police station and he looked through the glass and saw something) . . .
Well the scene is similar to Charlie's big scene in season 3 finale: being shut in the room, the room flooding, and he dies but saves the day. . .
Well Hurely left the island before he could do his job (whatever it is) . . .And Charlie is warning him that he has work to do! So I think it's Hurleys turn to "face death" and save his friends (somehow), just like Charlie did. . .
So my theory is Hurley is going to "sacrifice" himself this season and die saving his friends . . .I don't know, just a crazy, out there thought?
FROM TODD: Well the wait was worth it.... 1. Hurley's apologizing to Jack that he should have gone with Jack and not Locke was very interesting. Is that in reference to the splitting of the groups at the plane wreckage or a later not yet seen incident? 2. Definitely intrigued by the cover-up angle that the "Oceanic 6" are doing. 3. I am really enjoying the showing of the emotional and psychological transformation that Jack is going thru.. Will be interested to see what happens next 4. Jacob's cabin- well done!. Who was the other person who suddenly appeared at the window? How does Christian shephard fit into this... 5. Lastly, anyone stick around to watch Eli Stone for the Oceanic clue? I did and was lead to 2 different sites. (many of you probably already know this & have checked out the sites: flyoceanicair.com & find815.com)
FROM JJ: just one note - the guy that parachuted onto the island is NOT Elliot from E.T. - it's that guys younger look alike, Jeremy Davies who was in Solaris and Million Dollar Hotel. Elliot (Henry Thomas) went on to do Legends of the Fall and you can tell he is showing his age now... but the phone home thing would have worked nicely if it had really been Elliot.
I don't really have anything to add that has not been said, but maybe someone can explain something to me? Why did Kate give Jack the wrong trail to find Naomi? I missed the whole point in her going off on her own.
FROM JJ: i heard that flashbacks and flashforwards will be intermingled for this season. maybe they are working toward there only being flashforwards by the time we get to the final season. that would be a pretty cool approach as we see the dwindling down of the group until we learn who the final Oceanic 6 are... i saw a flash of the number 6 in many of the season four promos throughout this week. wasn't sure what it meant, but my guess was that the flashforward of Jack and Kate from last season was 6 years in the future. now we know otherwise...
my Oceanic Six picks:
1. Jack 2. Kate 3. Hurley 4. Sun 5. Desmond 6. Sayid
FROM JJ: i think Kate knew which trail was the real one, lifted the phone off of Jack to go find Naomi because she KNEW they had to get Naomi to talk with someone on the boat herself or they would all be in deep trouble... Jack would have tried to communicate himself, whether Naomi was still kicking or not, 'cause that's how Jack is.
maybe b/c Jack was "loosing" control -- he was kind of emotional and frustrated (with ben/others) and he was willing to sacrifice the 3 on the beach, so maybe Kate wanted him to back down so he wouldn't start "sacrificing" more of their group to get them off the island, I don't know. . . so she took away his power/control with the phone/trail. . .just a thought, not really sure. . .
KINEALY: C’mon, it was all about the cat fight. And there clearly wasn’t enough clawing and shirt ripping. If it were Sawyer, he would have ripped his own shirt off. I demand equality. Frank, I know you’re with me.
John G: During the Jack and Hurley's flash forwards, they both feel they should not have left the island, or that they should go back....for whatever reason. Will the 2nd to last season culminate with the combination of flashbacks, flash forwards, and time on the actually island, so that The Oceanic 6 (or some of them) decide they are going to try and go back to the island for the last season? I seriously doubt it, but that would be cool...
JJ: yes, in a different way. he said the "it wants us to go back." and Jack said he didn't want to hear it and left saying, "never." obviously he will change his mind... then Hurley says, "never say never."
JJ: alright - here's my massive email for the day ---
here's some general comments first...
i really liked this episode. i loved that Ana Lucia's former partner questions Hurley and mentions her. Hurley says he didn't know her - part of the cover up? is the cover up established only by the six that leave the island or are other people involved? the rescuers? Dharma? to continue to hide the island's existence? hmmmm....
loved that Hurley saw the shack and Jacob - that means Hurley is special, too. if only special people can see/hear him, that is huge. and i believe it's Locke that appears in the window. i bet Locked went back to the shack to get more instructions from Jacob after knifing Naomi...
i thought Charlie appearing was awesome. that was so cool and i really like the things they are doing and where the story can go with this approach... XinhXan said afterwards that she really saw how they used the flashbacks to show how they're past choices effect what they are doing now on the island, and now the choices they make on the island are going to similarly effect their lives in the future. truly brilliant storytelling technique. i cannot think of a single thing that has tackled this sort of storytelling device in such a thorough, inventive, and powerful way. truly impressive.
also loved that the entire group ended up back at the cockpit - which we have not seen since the first episode, and that's where Charlie is remembered. one of only three characters to have gone out to the cockpit that first time....
the division of the Losties was something i thought they might do and i was even hoping for it to continue building that conflict between Jack and Locke. i really love what they are doing so far and can't wait for more....
here's my possible theory for what might be going on:
i think the island might be some kind of portal between life and death. not purgatory, but something else. i think after watching Hurley see Charlie, and after hearing Jack refer to his father being in his office at the hospital in Jack's flashforward - i think we may be able to say that the island serves as a sort of bridge for souls...
i think i can best explain it like this: if you come to the island, anyone you know who died off the island can appear there. but if you have left the island, anyone who died on the island can appear in the outside world.
Eko - sees his brother on the island, but Yemi died off the island Ben - sees his mother on the island, but his mother died off the island Jack - sees his father on the island, but his father died off the island
Hurley - sees Charlie off the island, but he died on the island
let's take this a little further: what if Richard is dead, and that's why he doesn't age. Let's say Richard died off the island, but someone then became stranded on the island who knew Richard, and the island was then able to pull him back to some sort of second life. but it had to be on the island... that could go in a million different avenues. who is really dead? who is really alive?
maybe Locke's evil father really did die in a car wreck in Florida, but because Locke is on the island, he gets a second life - ON THE ISLAND. and when Richard and Ben say that Locke's evil father must be killed, they are saying that if you kill him in the real world, and then kill him again on the island, he dead for good. and since he was such an evil person, they could not allow him to live a second time on the island. too complicated? maybe....
let's go even further though... what if Hurley off the island isn't just seeing Charlie, but also Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, and Libby. even Eko. what if Jack, too is seeing Tom, and Pickett, and Eko and maybe other Losties we have not seen die yet. And what about Michael? what if Michael after escaping sees Ana Lucia and Libby everywhere he goes off the island... and Walt. what if Walt died off the island and that's why he can appear anywhere on the island...
i am probably wrong. but right now it's making all kinds of sense to me. we shall see.....
JAMIE: I don't have any idea who the Oceanic 6 will be (outside Jack and Hurley). But it seems to me that more then 6 people actually make it off the island.
This episode seems to refer to 6 people are know to get off the island by the public and they seem to have some fame.
But what about the funeral that Jack went to in the Season 3 finale? I'm guessing that is someone from the island since Jack and Kate both seemed to know him, but Jack says he wasn't a friend or family - was it Ben or Locke or Sawyer or someone else (sorry I wasn't on this email thread last season so I'm sure that was covered by everyone at that time)?
It seems to me that there would be more press or people in general showing up at the funeral if this person was part of the public "Oceanic 6".
Plus Kate is a wanted felon, so wouldn't she be taken to jail and not considered a hero in the public's eye if she was included in the Oceanic 6? She seemed to be hard to reach on the phone and had to meet Jack at some far off place by the airport - sort of like she is in hiding again.
So it seems to me that Jack and Hurley could be in the known "Oceanic 6" that return with 4 others to be established, but it also might be another group that made it back - including whoever died with the funeral nobody attended and possibly Kate - that return from the island.
JJ: maybe the person in the coffin is NOT one of the crash survivors, though. maybe the person in the coffin is one of the others, one of the rescuers, or Desmond. Six of the crash survivors may leave and be the Oceanic 6, but they leave with other people who were never on the plane, so those people could not be lumped into the whole Oceanic 6 mystique...
JJ: maybe Michael is one of the Oceanic 6, he killed Ana Lucia, so there is one valid reason for the cover up so Michael is not found to be a murderer. BUT Hurley has no reason to cover up anything for Michael, since he killed Libby, too and Hurley loved her. Could Michael have something over the whole group and they owe him and enter into the cover up? perhaps Kate receives a pardon due to her horrible plane crash ordeal... after all her mother and the Marshall are both dead now, so there would be no one to testify against her at a trail.
maybe Kate sees the U.S. Marshall off the island!!!!! this thing could go so many different ways!
What a great episode…not only is it wonderful to have LOST back and in good form, but with the strike, it’s great to have some quality tv again.
Here are some of my overall thoughts…I probably need to watch it again before I’ve got all of my thoughts organized:
Strohl (aka Jamie) – great theory about how the Oceanic 6 aren’t the only ones that made it off the island…I’ve been wondering why Kate would even want to leave the island, since she likely faces prison upon rescue. I like that thinking a lot. JJ – your theory about the dead being visible is v. intriguing…I’ve got one potential hole in the Richard theory. The first hour of last night showed Richard making the pitch to Juliet in LA…so if he was dead how would she be able to see him before she visited the island? But I still think there is something to the dead relatives/loved ones theory. I like how the group has finally divided into the Jack v. Locke camps…this has been a long time coming…but it seems that most of the people who fall into the Locke camp did it because of Hurley or Charlie, not Locke. I think it’s interesting how Hurley stepped up the leadership stuff as Jack’s leader status has started to slip away. But then he still looks to Jack as a leader when they meet post-rescue. Still don’t like Kate…she is as annoying as ever. Jeez. Stealing the radio and going off on her own? Big shocker there. I think one of my favorite parts was at the very end, when the parachute guy pulls off his helmet and said “I am here to rescue you.” It was a nice nod to Star Wars, when Luke Skywalker takes off his stormtrooper disguise and tells Princess Leia “I’m here to rescue you.” For most other shows I’d write it off as coincidence but this show is just too smart for that. My guess for the Oceanic 6: Jack, Hurley, Sun, Claire (and baby, but I don’t count the baby), Juliet and Desmond. I agree with Jamie’s theory that others made it off the island but are not part of the Oceanic 6…maybe that is part of the secret that they are keeping? That the rest of the people got off the island but secretly?
i tend to agree with you that it's Michael. i think the name J---- ---ntham that can be made out on the obit Jack has is a fake name. a "changed" name to hide the true identity of whoever is in there. Michael killed two people, and is considered a traitor by the other Losties when he killed Ana Lucia and Libby and then lead Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley into the Others trap to save only himself and Walt. that is definitely neither friend, nor family. and perhaps Walt also became estranged from Michael, or returned to the island.
XinhXan: So glad to know that someone else thinks Kate is annoying!
How about her gazing at Jack when they were at the plane? Bleck!
My thoughts about the show aren’t so much theory/conspiracy driven…
It was tightly written and edited. The pace was great. A bit of new music that helped the tension too.
When are these people ever going to talk to each other? So much could have been explained to Jack if Desmond would talk about Penny and seeing her on the screen before Charlie drowned…Nobody but Locke and Hurley know about Jacob’s house….
Hey, what about that line of ash around Jacob’s house? Didn’t see it last night. I thought Hurley might have tripped over it when he fell and that we would see him land in a giant hole…but we didn’t.
Yes- great theory Strohl.
Julia- very good point about Richard in LA, pre-island time for Juliet.
i thought of that business about Richard might not be dead since he can come and go from the island in spite of his agelessness as i was writing that email. i was on a roll though, so i let it go. oh well! maybe the rest of my theory is right, but take Richard out of it.
also - i can't see the world embracing the Oceanic Six if any of them were not actually on the plane, i.e. Juliet, Desmond, Benry, etc. Some of those people may be those who get "rescued" from the island, but they would not be given Golden Passes and received a lot of survivor press as they weren't actual passengers. Perhaps they die. I did notice that Sayid, Desmond, Sun and Jin all remain with the Jack group. Since Hurley went with Locke, obviously the division has little to do with who actually leaves the island... I'm sure Juliet will leave since that is all she's wanted to see her sister again. and of course, Desmond only cares about being reunited with Penny, so i'm sure he will leave, too. but I think they would be additional survivors to the famous O' 6 group. after all, Juliet and Desmond have both been gone for YEARS. people have short memories... the crash is still a relatively recent event in the world of the show, but the time when Juliet and Desmond arrived on the island is ancient history. no one would care about them, but their family / friends.
i was also pondering if when Charlie says to Hurley that "they need you" he is referring to Claire and Aaron. that he is referring to the specific people left behind on the island that HE cares about. also - Claire has to raise Aaron or he becomes the Antichrist or something according to the psychic... so maybe Claire decides not to leave based on that as well as Charlie's sacrifice. i don't think she'll be one of the O' 6 for these reasons...
if the world has been told that the Oceanic Airlines plane has already been found at the bottom of the ocean and the world was told there are no survivors, then there is the seed for there to be a cover up when are Losties are indeed rescued... if the world learns that people did survive, they would be asking how, where were they for three months, why were they told the plane was at the bottom of the sea, etc? so the question is who planted the story of the sunken plane and why... someone who already knew about the island, the survivors, the need to keep it all under wraps.... could that be the man who comes to Hurley in the Looney Bin? or does he work for Dharma or Penny or the Others? hmmmmm...
FRANK: I know most of you have mixed feelings about the whole 'online' portion of the LOST stuff, but to know all-things-LOST, I think a visit to the following website might be in order. It is a recap of the recent online LOST stuff, namely a guy named Sam is looking for his lost wife/girlfriend.
My guess from skimming this is that this stuff speaks more to the 'rescue' mission side of LOST and less to the 'mysteries of the island' LOST stuff.
Altho there is a mention of the Black Rock and finding the wreckage of Flight 815.
Just lobbing this out there:
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Find_815
Make sure to click on the "See main article..." part under each chapter heading, it goes more in depth and shows videos, etc. It's a good way to see the content without jumping thru the game hoops.
Those are all great points JJ. Esp. about Claire and Aaron needing Hurley…I was thinking that as I watched last night. My thinking is that Charlie is referring to Claire and Aaron, but there is something else that makes Hurley want to go back…the call of the island itself.
I wouldn’t put it past Juliet to act like she was on the flight to be one of the 6…but you never know
1) Sawyer is the definite #4 to the Oceanic 6. The Hottie Stays in the Show. :-)
2) Kate is with Sawyer in L.A.; otherwise she would not have to meet Jack in such a clandestine way, in the dark at the airport, etc...
3) Watching the Charlie death scenes twice mroe (once in the pop-up repeat, once in the clip show), now that it's gone cold, it seems kind of silly. Charlie didn't have to die in there to un-jam the signal-- by the time the grenade was set off and water was pouring in, he would not receive transmissions from Penny anymore anyway, he had already played Good Vibrations, Mr. Patch or whatever wasn't coming in there for him--there was no real reason for him to die there in that mission-- if Desmond could get out alive, so could Charlie. If Desmond was having prophesies, so what. Let him keep having them til you die in the natural course; if it was supposed to happen, it would happen. Charlie killed himself to stop having to hear about Desmond's visions?
4) The pregnant woman plot is v. much a So What-Who Cares thing. That the island is a place where if you conceive on the island the baby will die...Old joke, Guy: "Doc, it hurts when I go like this." Doc: "So don't go like this." Don't get pregnant while on the little fakockta island in the middle of nowhere. Who cares. The other properties of the island are so much more interesting: that it draws you in for a reason; that there are second chances for you; that you get to play out old mistakes and find redemption. There's enough there. Juliet's fertility analysis is not inspiring...
5) That Jack doesn't kill Ben (In the classic James Bond-Austin Powers way, don't kill the bad guy when you have the chance, pay for it later) but then wouldn't hesitate to kill Locke (stopped only by the fact that the gun was unloaded) doesn't make sense...
6) I'd like to see Sawyer, Desmond, Jin, and Sayid swimming naked next week. Those guys are really cut.
KYM: My main concern, in addition to all the others that were mentioned is WHO THE HELL IS IN THAT COFFIN? The guy at the funeral home asked "family or friend?" so that gives me the impression whomever it is, is obviously Caucasian. We haven't seen Sawyer yet in any of the flash forwards (or a lot of people for that matter) but I'm hoping it's not Sawyer. I can't help ignore the facts though that if he did die, considering his past before the crash, he'd have no family or friends to mourn him.
FRANK: 1) He can still be on the show and not be part of the O'6. They could have him (a) remain on the island and be part of the ones that stay or (b) get off the island in what many are thinking might happen in that more than 6 get off the island but are part of a coverup.
2) She mentiones something along the lines of 'i have to get back or he'll wonder where I am'. That can be interpreted in 2 ways: a husband/boyfriend back home or (as I think is more likely) a baby.
3) Ya, but you gotta factor in 'fate'. With the knowledge that he might die and not knowing exactly what to do, he thought it best to do what he did and give his life. How easily he keyed in Good Vibrations is more curios to me. (Incidentlly, keying in 975556789997 on a phone plays the General Lee car horn from the Dukes of Hazzard.)
4) I see what you're saying here, but I think we're about to learn why people CAN'T leave the island nor can they just invite anyone on the street. Thus they need to reproduce somehow.
5) Good point - but I think a small part of Jack believes he should keep Ben around. And Locke's been a prick to him lately.
KYM: I agree about Charlie, it was his destiny to die, Desmond kept saving him before. He must've been ass tired keeping him from dying all those times LOL
35 comments:
From Julianne:
Hello, I'm new (Julianne, nice to meet you).
Well I have to wait a little longer until my real comment, since I didn't get to watch everything last night (I had to work very late).
But I get the feeling that this show's going to end like the Gilligan Island movie. Remember how they were all rescued, but they individually each found they'd preferred life on the island? Then at the end of the movie Gilligan gets them all stranded on the same island again..?
Don't worry, I'm sure I'll have something better to add after I get to watch the whole thing.
FROM FRANK:
Note: please remember not to refer to the preview for next week as I don't watch it.
I thought it was good. My wife jumped a few times at the 'Hurley looking in Jacob's Pad' part. Online freeze frames show Christian Shepard sitting in Jacob's chair.
No elaborate theories being developed over here, but a few things to comment on:
1) The guy that told Hurley that someone was looking at him strangely - and then we are lead to believe that Charlie was just in Hurley's head - did he see Charlie, or was he also just in Hurley's head?
2) 'You'd look weird in a beard'. Funny line.
3) So now the show is going down the 'big coverup' angle. I like this. We have the black guy that comes to see Hurley (who's name anagrams to 'the bad boat man') who, obviously not with Oceanic Air, is probably Hanso or whoever gets to the island. And then we have the Oceanic 6's coverup (same one?) or agreement to keep quiet. Weird.
4) Who are your guesses for the Oceanic 6? My guess is Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Claire, and baby - but if baby doesnt count, then either Locke or Desmond.
5) lots of other good stuff..
FROM KELLY:
I found the image of Charlie and his hand "THEY NEED YOU" (when Hurley was in the police station and he looked through the glass and saw something) . . .
Well the scene is similar to Charlie's big scene in season 3 finale: being shut in the room, the room flooding, and he dies but saves the day. . .
Well Hurely left the island before he could do his job (whatever it is) . . .And Charlie is warning him that he has work to do!
So I think it's Hurleys turn to "face death" and save his friends (somehow), just like Charlie did. . .
So my theory is Hurley is going to "sacrifice" himself this season and die saving his friends . . .I don't know, just a crazy, out there thought?
FROM TODD:
Well the wait was worth it....
1. Hurley's apologizing to Jack that he should have gone with Jack and not Locke was very interesting. Is that in reference to the splitting of the groups at the plane wreckage or a later not yet seen incident?
2. Definitely intrigued by the cover-up angle that the "Oceanic 6" are doing.
3. I am really enjoying the showing of the emotional and psychological transformation that Jack is going thru.. Will be interested to see what happens next
4. Jacob's cabin- well done!. Who was the other person who suddenly appeared at the window? How does Christian shephard fit into this...
5. Lastly, anyone stick around to watch Eli Stone for the Oceanic clue? I did and was lead to 2 different sites. (many of you probably already know this & have checked out the sites: flyoceanicair.com & find815.com)
FROM JJ:
just one note - the guy that parachuted onto the island is NOT Elliot from E.T. - it's that guys younger look alike, Jeremy Davies who was in Solaris and Million Dollar Hotel. Elliot (Henry Thomas) went on to do Legends of the Fall and you can tell he is showing his age now... but the phone home thing would have worked nicely if it had really been Elliot.
FROM AMY:
I don't really have anything to add that has not been said, but maybe someone can explain something to me? Why did Kate give Jack the wrong trail to find Naomi? I missed the whole point in her going off on her own.
This is a test comment
FROM JJ:
i heard that flashbacks and flashforwards will be intermingled for this season. maybe they are working toward there only being flashforwards by the time we get to the final season. that would be a pretty cool approach as we see the dwindling down of the group until we learn who the final Oceanic 6 are... i saw a flash of the number 6 in many of the season four promos throughout this week. wasn't sure what it meant, but my guess was that the flashforward of Jack and Kate from last season was 6 years in the future. now we know otherwise...
my Oceanic Six picks:
1. Jack
2. Kate
3. Hurley
4. Sun
5. Desmond
6. Sayid
FROM JJ:
i think Kate knew which trail was the real one, lifted the phone off of Jack to go find Naomi because she KNEW they had to get Naomi to talk with someone on the boat herself or they would all be in deep trouble... Jack would have tried to communicate himself, whether Naomi was still kicking or not, 'cause that's how Jack is.
FROM KELLY:
that's a good point, not really sure either. . .
maybe b/c Jack was "loosing" control -- he was kind of emotional and frustrated (with ben/others) and he was willing to sacrifice the 3 on the beach, so maybe Kate wanted him to back down so he wouldn't start "sacrificing" more of their group to get them off the island, I don't know. . . so she took away his power/control with the phone/trail. . .just a thought, not really sure. . .
KINEALY:
C’mon, it was all about the cat fight. And there clearly wasn’t enough clawing and shirt ripping. If it were Sawyer, he would have ripped his own shirt off. I demand equality. Frank, I know you’re with me.
John G:
During the Jack and Hurley's flash forwards, they both feel they should not have left the island, or that they should go back....for whatever reason. Will the 2nd to last season culminate with the combination of flashbacks, flash forwards, and time on the actually island, so that The Oceanic 6 (or some of them) decide they are going to try and go back to the island for the last season? I seriously doubt it, but that would be cool...
FRANK:
So as to keep my derailing to a minimum, I will only add one slightly off-topic comment:
The closest person to taking off his shirt in this episode was Hurley and his Cannonball shenanigans.
...we now return to the regularly scheduled discussion, already in progress.
TODD:
Can't recall now, but when Jack visited Hurley at the Psych ward did Hurley say they shouldn't have left or that they had to go back?
JJ:
yes, in a different way. he said the "it wants us to go back." and Jack said he didn't want to hear it and left saying, "never." obviously he will change his mind... then Hurley says, "never say never."
JJ:
alright - here's my massive email for the day ---
here's some general comments first...
i really liked this episode. i loved that Ana Lucia's former partner questions Hurley and mentions her. Hurley says he didn't know her - part of the cover up? is the cover up established only by the six that leave the island or are other people involved? the rescuers? Dharma? to continue to hide the island's existence? hmmmm....
loved that Hurley saw the shack and Jacob - that means Hurley is special, too. if only special people can see/hear him, that is huge. and i believe it's Locke that appears in the window. i bet Locked went back to the shack to get more instructions from Jacob after knifing Naomi...
i thought Charlie appearing was awesome. that was so cool and i really like the things they are doing and where the story can go with this approach... XinhXan said afterwards that she really saw how they used the flashbacks to show how they're past choices effect what they are doing now on the island, and now the choices they make on the island are going to similarly effect their lives in the future. truly brilliant storytelling technique. i cannot think of a single thing that has tackled this sort of storytelling device in such a thorough, inventive, and powerful way. truly impressive.
also loved that the entire group ended up back at the cockpit - which we have not seen since the first episode, and that's where Charlie is remembered. one of only three characters to have gone out to the cockpit that first time....
the division of the Losties was something i thought they might do and i was even hoping for it to continue building that conflict between Jack and Locke. i really love what they are doing so far and can't wait for more....
here's my possible theory for what might be going on:
i think the island might be some kind of portal between life and death. not purgatory, but something else. i think after watching Hurley see Charlie, and after hearing Jack refer to his father being in his office at the hospital in Jack's flashforward - i think we may be able to say that the island serves as a sort of bridge for souls...
i think i can best explain it like this: if you come to the island, anyone you know who died off the island can appear there. but if you have left the island, anyone who died on the island can appear in the outside world.
Eko - sees his brother on the island, but Yemi died off the island
Ben - sees his mother on the island, but his mother died off the island
Jack - sees his father on the island, but his father died off the island
Hurley - sees Charlie off the island, but he died on the island
let's take this a little further: what if Richard is dead, and that's why he doesn't age. Let's say Richard died off the island, but someone then became stranded on the island who knew Richard, and the island was then able to pull him back to some sort of second life. but it had to be on the island... that could go in a million different avenues. who is really dead? who is really alive?
maybe Locke's evil father really did die in a car wreck in Florida, but because Locke is on the island, he gets a second life - ON THE ISLAND. and when Richard and Ben say that Locke's evil father must be killed, they are saying that if you kill him in the real world, and then kill him again on the island, he dead for good. and since he was such an evil person, they could not allow him to live a second time on the island. too complicated? maybe....
let's go even further though... what if Hurley off the island isn't just seeing Charlie, but also Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, and Libby. even Eko. what if Jack, too is seeing Tom, and Pickett, and Eko and maybe other Losties we have not seen die yet. And what about Michael? what if Michael after escaping sees Ana Lucia and Libby everywhere he goes off the island... and Walt. what if Walt died off the island and that's why he can appear anywhere on the island...
i am probably wrong. but right now it's making all kinds of sense to me. we shall see.....
JAMIE:
I don't have any idea who the Oceanic 6 will be (outside Jack and Hurley). But it seems to me that more then 6 people actually make it off the island.
This episode seems to refer to 6 people are know to get off the island by the public and they seem to have some fame.
But what about the funeral that Jack went to in the Season 3 finale? I'm guessing that is someone from the island since Jack and Kate both seemed to know him, but Jack says he wasn't a friend or family - was it Ben or Locke or Sawyer or someone else (sorry I wasn't on this email thread last season so I'm sure that was covered by everyone at that time)?
It seems to me that there would be more press or people in general showing up at the funeral if this person was part of the public "Oceanic 6".
Plus Kate is a wanted felon, so wouldn't she be taken to jail and not considered a hero in the public's eye if she was included in the Oceanic 6? She seemed to be hard to reach on the phone and had to meet Jack at some far off place by the airport - sort of like she is in hiding again.
So it seems to me that Jack and Hurley could be in the known "Oceanic 6" that return with 4 others to be established, but it also might be another group that made it back - including whoever died with the funeral nobody attended and possibly Kate - that return from the island.
JJ:
maybe the person in the coffin is NOT one of the crash survivors, though. maybe the person in the coffin is one of the others, one of the rescuers, or Desmond. Six of the crash survivors may leave and be the Oceanic 6, but they leave with other people who were never on the plane, so those people could not be lumped into the whole Oceanic 6 mystique...
JJ:
maybe Michael is one of the Oceanic 6, he killed Ana Lucia, so there is one valid reason for the cover up so Michael is not found to be a murderer. BUT Hurley has no reason to cover up anything for Michael, since he killed Libby, too and Hurley loved her. Could Michael have something over the whole group and they owe him and enter into the cover up? perhaps Kate receives a pardon due to her horrible plane crash ordeal... after all her mother and the Marshall are both dead now, so there would be no one to testify against her at a trail.
maybe Kate sees the U.S. Marshall off the island!!!!! this thing could go so many different ways!
JULIA:
What a great episode…not only is it wonderful to have LOST back and in good form, but with the strike, it’s great to have some quality tv again.
Here are some of my overall thoughts…I probably need to watch it again before I’ve got all of my thoughts organized:
Strohl (aka Jamie) – great theory about how the Oceanic 6 aren’t the only ones that made it off the island…I’ve been wondering why Kate would even want to leave the island, since she likely faces prison upon rescue. I like that thinking a lot.
JJ – your theory about the dead being visible is v. intriguing…I’ve got one potential hole in the Richard theory. The first hour of last night showed Richard making the pitch to Juliet in LA…so if he was dead how would she be able to see him before she visited the island? But I still think there is something to the dead relatives/loved ones theory.
I like how the group has finally divided into the Jack v. Locke camps…this has been a long time coming…but it seems that most of the people who fall into the Locke camp did it because of Hurley or Charlie, not Locke. I think it’s interesting how Hurley stepped up the leadership stuff as Jack’s leader status has started to slip away. But then he still looks to Jack as a leader when they meet post-rescue.
Still don’t like Kate…she is as annoying as ever. Jeez. Stealing the radio and going off on her own? Big shocker there.
I think one of my favorite parts was at the very end, when the parachute guy pulls off his helmet and said “I am here to rescue you.” It was a nice nod to Star Wars, when Luke Skywalker takes off his stormtrooper disguise and tells Princess Leia “I’m here to rescue you.” For most other shows I’d write it off as coincidence but this show is just too smart for that.
My guess for the Oceanic 6: Jack, Hurley, Sun, Claire (and baby, but I don’t count the baby), Juliet and Desmond. I agree with Jamie’s theory that others made it off the island but are not part of the Oceanic 6…maybe that is part of the secret that they are keeping? That the rest of the people got off the island but secretly?
JJ:
i tend to agree with you that it's Michael. i think the name J---- ---ntham that can be made out on the obit Jack has is a fake name. a "changed" name to hide the true identity of whoever is in there. Michael killed two people, and is considered a traitor by the other Losties when he killed Ana Lucia and Libby and then lead Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley into the Others trap to save only himself and Walt. that is definitely neither friend, nor family. and perhaps Walt also became estranged from Michael, or returned to the island.
JULIA:
Sawyer shooting Tom last season for taking Walt is one of those moments where, if it was a movie, the crowd would have cheered. Good stuff.
XinhXan:
So glad to know that someone else thinks Kate is annoying!
How about her gazing at Jack when they were at the plane? Bleck!
My thoughts about the show aren’t so much theory/conspiracy driven…
It was tightly written and edited. The pace was great. A bit of new music that helped the tension too.
When are these people ever going to talk to each other? So much could have been explained to Jack if Desmond would talk about Penny and seeing her on the screen before Charlie drowned…Nobody but Locke and Hurley know about Jacob’s house….
Hey, what about that line of ash around Jacob’s house? Didn’t see it last night. I thought Hurley might have tripped over it when he fell and that we would see him land in a giant hole…but we didn’t.
Yes- great theory Strohl.
Julia- very good point about Richard in LA, pre-island time for Juliet.
JJ:
Julia,
i thought of that business about Richard might not be dead since he can come and go from the island in spite of his agelessness as i was writing that email. i was on a roll though, so i let it go. oh well! maybe the rest of my theory is right, but take Richard out of it.
also - i can't see the world embracing the Oceanic Six if any of them were not actually on the plane, i.e. Juliet, Desmond, Benry, etc. Some of those people may be those who get "rescued" from the island, but they would not be given Golden Passes and received a lot of survivor press as they weren't actual passengers. Perhaps they die. I did notice that Sayid, Desmond, Sun and Jin all remain with the Jack group. Since Hurley went with Locke, obviously the division has little to do with who actually leaves the island... I'm sure Juliet will leave since that is all she's wanted to see her sister again. and of course, Desmond only cares about being reunited with Penny, so i'm sure he will leave, too. but I think they would be additional survivors to the famous O' 6 group. after all, Juliet and Desmond have both been gone for YEARS. people have short memories... the crash is still a relatively recent event in the world of the show, but the time when Juliet and Desmond arrived on the island is ancient history. no one would care about them, but their family / friends.
i was also pondering if when Charlie says to Hurley that "they need you" he is referring to Claire and Aaron. that he is referring to the specific people left behind on the island that HE cares about. also - Claire has to raise Aaron or he becomes the Antichrist or something according to the psychic... so maybe Claire decides not to leave based on that as well as Charlie's sacrifice. i don't think she'll be one of the O' 6 for these reasons...
JJ:
i just thought of something...
if the world has been told that the Oceanic Airlines plane has already been found at the bottom of the ocean and the world was told there are no survivors, then there is the seed for there to be a cover up when are Losties are indeed rescued... if the world learns that people did survive, they would be asking how, where were they for three months, why were they told the plane was at the bottom of the sea, etc? so the question is who planted the story of the sunken plane and why... someone who already knew about the island, the survivors, the need to keep it all under wraps.... could that be the man who comes to Hurley in the Looney Bin? or does he work for Dharma or Penny or the Others? hmmmmm...
XINHXAN:
Good call. That is a really valid point…
FRANK:
I know most of you have mixed feelings about the whole 'online' portion of the LOST stuff, but to know all-things-LOST, I think a visit to the following website might be in order. It is a recap of the recent online LOST stuff, namely a guy named Sam is looking for his lost wife/girlfriend.
My guess from skimming this is that this stuff speaks more to the 'rescue' mission side of LOST and less to the 'mysteries of the island' LOST stuff.
Altho there is a mention of the Black Rock and finding the wreckage of Flight 815.
Just lobbing this out there:
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Find_815
Make sure to click on the "See main article..." part under each chapter heading, it goes more in depth and shows videos, etc. It's a good way to see the content without jumping thru the game hoops.
here is Doc Jensen's Lost article, which many of us love and read after each episode for sagely insight.
i love the bit about Jonah and the whale that he breaks down. he's dead on and that's great stuff....
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20036782_20037403_20175395,00.html
FRANK:
other good screenshot link:
losteastereggs.blogspot.com
good forums:
4815162342.com
best historical reference stuff - about every freakin thing here:
lhttp://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Main_Page
JULIA:
Those are all great points JJ. Esp. about Claire and Aaron needing Hurley…I was thinking that as I watched last night. My thinking is that Charlie is referring to Claire and Aaron, but there is something else that makes Hurley want to go back…the call of the island itself.
I wouldn’t put it past Juliet to act like she was on the flight to be one of the 6…but you never know
FROM LIZ:
1) Sawyer is the definite #4 to the Oceanic 6. The Hottie Stays in the Show. :-)
2) Kate is with Sawyer in L.A.; otherwise she would not have to meet Jack
in such a clandestine way, in the dark at the airport, etc...
3) Watching the Charlie death scenes twice mroe (once in the pop-up repeat, once in the clip show),
now that it's gone cold, it seems kind of silly. Charlie didn't have to die in there to un-jam the signal--
by the time the grenade was set off and water was pouring in, he would not receive transmissions
from Penny anymore anyway, he had already played Good Vibrations, Mr. Patch or whatever wasn't
coming in there for him--there was no real reason for him to die there in that mission--
if Desmond could get out alive, so could Charlie. If Desmond was having prophesies,
so what. Let him keep having them til you die in the natural course; if it was supposed
to happen, it would happen. Charlie killed himself to stop having to hear about Desmond's visions?
4) The pregnant woman plot is v. much a So What-Who Cares thing. That the island
is a place where if you conceive on the island the baby will die...Old joke,
Guy: "Doc, it hurts when I go like this." Doc: "So don't go like this."
Don't get pregnant while on the little fakockta island in the middle of nowhere.
Who cares. The other properties of the island are so much more interesting:
that it draws you in for a reason; that there are second chances for you;
that you get to play out old mistakes and find redemption. There's enough
there. Juliet's fertility analysis is not inspiring...
5) That Jack doesn't kill Ben (In the classic James Bond-Austin Powers way,
don't kill the bad guy when you have the chance, pay for it later) but then
wouldn't hesitate to kill Locke (stopped only by the fact that the gun
was unloaded) doesn't make sense...
6) I'd like to see Sawyer, Desmond, Jin, and Sayid swimming naked
next week. Those guys are really cut.
KYM:
My main concern, in addition to all the others that were mentioned is WHO THE HELL IS IN THAT COFFIN? The guy at the funeral home asked "family or friend?" so that gives me the impression whomever it is, is obviously Caucasian. We haven't seen Sawyer yet in any of the flash forwards (or a lot of people for that matter) but I'm hoping it's not Sawyer. I can't help ignore the facts though that if he did die, considering his past before the crash, he'd have no family or friends to mourn him.
KYM:
I've thought about this too which makes me even more confused about WHO THE HELL IS IN THE COFFIN????????
FRANK:
1) He can still be on the show and not be part of the O'6. They could have him (a) remain on the island and be part of the ones that stay or (b) get off the island in what many are thinking might happen in that more than 6 get off the island but are part of a coverup.
2) She mentiones something along the lines of 'i have to get back or he'll wonder where I am'. That can be interpreted in 2 ways: a husband/boyfriend back home or (as I think is more likely) a baby.
3) Ya, but you gotta factor in 'fate'. With the knowledge that he might die and not knowing exactly what to do, he thought it best to do what he did and give his life. How easily he keyed in Good Vibrations is more curios to me. (Incidentlly, keying in 975556789997 on a phone plays the General Lee car horn from the Dukes of Hazzard.)
4) I see what you're saying here, but I think we're about to learn why people CAN'T leave the island nor can they just invite anyone on the street. Thus they need to reproduce somehow.
5) Good point - but I think a small part of Jack believes he should keep Ben around. And Locke's been a prick to him lately.
6) Oh grow up.
KYM:
I agree about Charlie, it was his destiny to die, Desmond kept saving him before. He must've been ass tired keeping him from dying all those times LOL
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